Fo the Communist
1:59 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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Surf - I think we are in agreement.
Bottom line for me is that if they were 'real fans' they would just write of the debt and discussions about interest rates would be academic.
But they aren't and they don't.
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onsideman
1:58 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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Surface
I suppose it only matters in the sense that they could lend money interest-free - as some other owners do - or that the club could potentially secure more favourable secured loan rates from other sources. In that respect it could be argued that they don't necessarily have the club's best interest at heart
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
1:46 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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Soz, onsidesman
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
1:46 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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FO
Surely, given the club makes little or no profit, they have had to raise more loans (from themselves) to pay the interest on the debt.
So, if the directors had waived that interest, the club would be worth more because it's debt would be lower. Or am I missing something?
One
Yes, I bow to your superior knowledge about tax - I had already formed a vague idea that was the reason, and thank you for clarifying it, but it doesn't matter to us fans does it? Or do it?
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onsideman
12:42 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero 11:29 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
Can anyone explain to me why we are upset about loans from owners, but not upset by loans from banks?
I don't see how it makes any difference myself
Unsecured Directors Loans can attract interest of up to 10% without arousing attention from hmrc - try getting a guaranteed return like that anywhere else in the current climate. It's what anyone would do (if they were in his position and wanted to maximise the returns on any spare capital and didn't give a shit about the business or cashflow)
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Fo the Communist
12:33 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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Surf.
I am not a financier, or anything close to, it but isn't a debt a debt?
Surely the debt would be factored into the purchase price whether they have charged interest on it or not. The only thing that would matter would be the size of said outstanding debt.
I could of course, be missing the point entirely.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
12:25 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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Fo the Communist 11:50 Tue Sep 15
Three good points, all well made.
I think my point is that, if they DIDN'T take the interest, the effect would be that the value of the club would rise by the interest forgone - and as the club is owned by them, all that means is that they would transfer income to increased asset value. It doesn't really make any difference to us fans.
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Westside
12:17 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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Can we trust this information?
The West Ham numbers are correct.
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Vexed
12:16 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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Can we trust this information? Where did it come from?
It looks a bit..... amateurish.
It wouldn't surprise me if this was true but there's a lot of mischievous folk out there.
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Fo the Communist
12:15 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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Westside.
As you yourself said, that share issue could be seen as an investment - particularly in the takeover rumours are true.
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Westside
12:03 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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Thirdly they deliberately don't reduce the debt meaningfully
True, but they didn't increase it, when the club ran short of cash this year, they funded the club, by a share rights issue, of £30 million.
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Westside
12:02 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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s this cash out the door or accrued interest (some of which may not have been paid??
In West Ham's case, all the interest up to 31/5/2019 has ALL gone out the door now (remaining rolled up interest paid out in August last year).
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Westside
11:58 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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Can anyone explain to me why we are upset about loans from owners, but not upset by loans from banks?
I don't see how it makes any difference myself
I think when the owners, who purport to be fans and are fabulously wealthy, I think some fans think it would be good, if they could show their support, by not charging interest on loans. They do of course defer the interest payments at times (which I don't see banks doing), but it's all been paid out now.
Also they determine the loan interest rates, not the market, which were very toppy in the early years (came down to reasonable rates about 3 years ago).
Of course, the owners lobbed in £30 million in a share issue, in July, which may attract a dividend in the future.
As for the interest paid table, how many of the clubs actually have loans from their owners? Many clubs, might be glad of cash support
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Sarge
11:54 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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Is this cash out the door or accrued interest (some of which may not have been paid?)
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Fo the Communist
11:50 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero 11:29 Tue Sep 15
Where to start?
Firstly its a stick to beat them with. And any opportunity comes along should be grasped with aplomb.
Secondly the whole loan thing exposes their deceit both in saying that they don't take anything from the club and in saying they are fans. I don't accept that 'fans' (in the way I would use the term) would take money from the club in that underhand way.
Thirdly they deliberately don't reduce the debt meaningfully so they can continue to rake off the interest payment - again exposing the fact they are not acting as fans (as they'd have us believe) but as money-makers.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
11:29 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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Can anyone explain to me why we are upset about loans from owners, but not upset by loans from banks?
I don't see how it makes any difference myself
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Westside
11:14 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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and in the last two years these Captains of Industry have presided over a company that have lost over £40 million in the P&L
No, for the last two years published accounts, aggregate losses are £10 million.
Besides, I thought we wanted them to spend money on players etc (£135 million spent in cash, £73 million in in sales in those two years), not use the club as a cash cow?
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Johnson
10:05 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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You should because that is exactly what it is Aldgate
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aldgate
9:56 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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my season ticket payment to them for a non-existent product should now be seen as a loan - i should charge them the sullivan/gold standard rate of interest on it.
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Capitol Man
6:41 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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They are the owners and in reality the only people this matters to is them. The structures of a private company like this don’t really mean much.
We needed the “loan” after the Icelandic disaster. Having said all this we don’t seem to be able to get our shit together and I’d be more worried about the shit being served up as a “product”.
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toadinthehole
6:28 Tue Sep 15
Re: Premier league interest payments to club owners last 5 years
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If you look at the financial accounts over the years, you will see the owners gave West Ham a huge loan in 2010 and they have been taking interest payment at a high rate from West Ham every year.
They make money off West Ham whilst we can't pay off the loan because of their interest payment
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